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 Asunto: Help wanted
NotaPublicado: 01 Jun 2016, 04:45 
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Registrado: 01 Jun 2016, 04:37
Mensajes: 19
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Hello to all. I know that I'm a bit in the wrong place, but I couldn't do better with my limited language skills.

I am a Fiat enthusiast from Finland. I am currently working on a Fiat 128 Panorama. The legislation for modifying cars was changed here in the end of last year. With the current law we might be able to use Argentinian Fiat models as comparison cars. With the old law we were limited to European models.

The system works here so that you are allowed to tune the car to 20% more power than the most powerfull car from the factory. For displacement this limit is 25% over the biggest production car. So far we've been able to use the 128 Sport Coupe as this comparison vehicle. The Sport Coupe has a 1300 cc engine with 75 hp, that leads to limits of little over 1600 cc and about 90 hp.

I am hoping that I could use the 1500 Super Europa as a comparison car and stretch the legal limits a bit further.

Could you help me to find the necessary documents to prove the engine capacity and power to the officials? Basically a few pages from a factory manual would be sufficient.

Or if you could point me out if you have an online document library or such for old technical documents? Maybe there is an Argentinian discussion forum for old Fiat enthusiasts?

Best Regards,
Tuomas, Finland


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 Asunto: Re: Help wanted
NotaPublicado: 01 Jun 2016, 11:08 
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Registrado: 25 Abr 2012, 00:09
Mensajes: 2171
Modelo: Sport MT
Color: Blanco Perla (Perlado)
Hi Tuomas,
googling I found this blog;
http://supereuropa.blogspot.com.ar/
which has scans of original documentation, among those the owners manuals for the 1st and 2nd edition of the Super Europa, here´s the link for the 1st ed;
http://supereuropa.blogspot.com.ar/2008 ... dicin.html

Unfortunately I see the power figures are not very high (60cv), so not sure it will be of much help for what you are after.

Maybe you could aim for a different model? we had a factory tuned version in the '70s which was de 128 IAVA, that one had more power from factory.

good luck!


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 Asunto: Re: Help wanted
NotaPublicado: 01 Jun 2016, 23:24 
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Registrado: 14 Mar 2016, 14:55
Mensajes: 18
Modelo: Lounge AT
Color: Blanco Perla (Perlado)
Fecha de Entrega: 25 Feb 1979
Buena babelhoo!! International support!!! Felicitaciones !


Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk


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 Asunto: Re: Help wanted
NotaPublicado: 02 Jun 2016, 02:43 
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Registrado: 01 Jun 2016, 04:37
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Thanks a lot for the tip babelhoo!

From that blog you can actually find the 1,5 l data as well what comes to the engine power.

But there is no data for brakes :(

What I'm looking for is something like this:

Imagen

Imagen

The Super Europa would be good in a way that it has the biggest engine. The capacity and power don't have to be from the same engine. I know about the IAVAs and the most powerfull was 102 hp, I think. I have some papers of those. The only problem is that weren't those made by the importer? Or are those actually from the factory? If I could find the factory manuals for the IAVA, then I could use those as well. So if you have any papers concerning those, please share. You can send me an email to tuomas.hayrinen@gmail.com

I found a Classic Fiat Club of Argentina. I sent them a mail as well, but haven't heard anything yet. Do you think they might be a good source for old documents?

I can speak a bit of Spanish, but not good enough to be able to search effectively. I used to live in Venezuela for a couple of years in the early nineties.


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 Asunto: Re: Help wanted
NotaPublicado: 02 Jun 2016, 10:03 
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Registrado: 15 Dic 2014, 17:33
Mensajes: 59
Modelo: Pop Star
Color: Bianco giogioso (Polaco)
Fecha de Entrega: 10 Ene 2015
Concesionario: Auto Novo Ramos Mejía
Hi Gasket, in this link you could find more technical info about Fiat 128 Super Europa. It's written in spanish, but technical data about the car is very easy to indentify. Not only about power engine. You can find info about gear boxes, diferential, brakes, and performance.

http://www.testdelayer.com.ar/128europa.htm

Pls, tell mi if you neeed any further .
Regards.

Sergio


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 Asunto: Re: Help wanted
NotaPublicado: 02 Jun 2016, 11:43 
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Registrado: 14 Jun 2013, 09:21
Mensajes: 257
Ubicación: Olivos
Modelo: Cult MT
Color: Blanco Perla (Perlado)
Opcionales: Blue & Me
Fecha de Entrega: 0- 0-2013
Concesionario: Fiat Auto Argentina
Hi Gasket, I am a bit curious. Will you use the documents with an transport department agency like a legal justification for the increase of power in your vehicule? How the goverment know about the exact HP on tyour vehicule? Just curious.

I think here you have a good summary:
http://www.fiat128club.com.ar/sitio/ind ... 5&Itemid=9

Post some images from your project/cars!

Cheers.


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 Asunto: Re: Help wanted
NotaPublicado: 02 Jun 2016, 15:56 
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Registrado: 25 Abr 2012, 00:09
Mensajes: 2171
Modelo: Sport MT
Color: Blanco Perla (Perlado)
The IAVA was sold as a factory car and as you say it had 102HP (in those times the power was measured in HP in Arg).

Here you have a scan of a magazine from 1974 where this model was tested, and the specs are listed;
https://issuu.com/traverso/docs/test_fi ... _tv_-_1974


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 Asunto: Re: Help wanted
NotaPublicado: 06 Jun 2016, 04:48 
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Registrado: 01 Jun 2016, 04:37
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Yes, I need the documents for the transport department. That is why I'd need official factory documents. I can't just copy technical data from the internet :(

I have to have the car ran on a dyno to show for the power. If I'd fit an unmodified engine, then I could just say from which car it is and the power from that car would be used. If I make modifications that "clearly influence engine power" I have to have the car dynoed.

Basically in normal MOT the inspector won't recognize a 1600 cc sohc from a 1100 sohc, but in case I crash the insurance inspector might look closer.

Anyway I'd like to make the engine legal since it's possible. And after the initial registration, no one can say if the car has 90 hp or 120 hp. But if I can make it a legal 120 hp, I will.

The Panorama:

Imagen

Imagen

Family portrait:

Imagen

I drive the Delta and 128, Mrs. drives the 159

The new engine:

Imagen

Imagen

Imagen

Imagen

Imagen

Imagen

Started on the exhaust last weekend:

Imagen

New seats waiting to go in:

Imagen

In my past I used to have a Ritmo Cabrio Bianco for a couple of years:

Imagen

It was just a bit inconvenient and I traded it for this Panorama.

With a friend we have an HGT Bravo for track days:

Imagen

Imagen

Waiting for an engine swap from a Lancia Kappa 2,4 l..

Some years ago I went a bit stray for a while since a Taunus (Cortina) pretty much fell in my hands:

Imagen

Kind of a funny car, but also dangerous eventually and not my cup of tea.


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 Asunto: Re: Help wanted
NotaPublicado: 06 Jun 2016, 11:32 
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Registrado: 25 Abr 2012, 00:09
Mensajes: 2171
Modelo: Sport MT
Color: Blanco Perla (Perlado)
Great cars you had/have. I recall the Ritmo from my childhood (yeah, I'm that old!) when I was abroad, it never made it officially to Argentina, we did get it 4 door cousin. How is that Delta? it's a shame there are no Lancias as the great ones from the '60s.
The 159 sw looks fantastic.
I'll ask a friend who is more into Fiats if he has some "harder" documentation (as opposed to just links) for your needs, otherwise you can buy a manual online, for example (this is the latin version of an ebay lookalike);
http://listado.mercadolibre.com.ar/libr ... per-europa
If none will send it over to Europe, tell me and I'll see if I can get it sent to my place and I'll then send it to you.
I understand you are more interested in documenting that a version with higher engine capacity existed from factory, right? not so much it's original power output?


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 Asunto: Re: Help wanted
NotaPublicado: 06 Jun 2016, 17:01 
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Registrado: 01 Jun 2016, 04:37
Mensajes: 19
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I've also had a couple of 133's and I still have my old ice track racer Lada. That has had several different twin cams under its hood.

I like the Delta. It's not as good to drive as the Alfa, but it doesn't have the Alfa temper either. The 159 does have a pretty mean grin on its face. Not a lot of either around here, so both get noticed.

I'd be more than happy to buy a manual if it has the info I need. The problem with owners manuals is that I don't think that those have information about brakes. The factory manual would be ideal.

I'm interested in both, capacity and power. I can use cc and hp from two different cars. With SE and iava documents I could install for example a modern 1747 pratola serra engine. Think about the potential!


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